Health
Education
Trust

Health
Education
Trust

School Nutrition Action Group
Active Advice

The SNAG Advice Line has proved over the years to be a valuable resource, accessed by many individuals and schools who are in need of advice or information to help them develop School Nutrition Action Groups, or resolve issues which appear too problematic to address.

This service is now available online!

This means that we are able to post here, for everyone to see, your key questions, along with the vital answers and advice. You never know, it may be that we post a solution to a question, which may just help you to see a way forward to addressing a related issue in your own school!

Your questions answered on issues relevant to school catering provision and SNAGs.

If you have a question, that cannot be answered by reference to the SNAG page on this site, or within 'The Chips are Down', then send it to the Health Education Trust using the e-mail link below.

Joe Harvey will answer your questions and those key questions which we believe would be of benefit to others will be posted on this page. So keep returning to see what the issues are out there!

And there's more, we are keen to receive your own experiences and solutions to the issues raised within these pages. If you have useful advice to offer and anecdotal experiences from solving similar issues in your area, then please send us an e-mail giving details. Your contributions may be added to the page so that others might be able to benefit from your successes. Equally important is advice on pitfalls to avoid!!

Ask Joe Harvey

Have your queries and concerns addressed by Joe and posted here to share with all.

Follow the links on this page to previously posted questions and answers.
Scroll down for the Questions and Answers
Active Advice Questions and Answers / Bookmark this page and check back frequently for answers.

Several parents have raised this question regarding packed lunches:

Q My 10 year old and 6 year old children have packed lunches because there's currently no alternative. I send them to school with a varied selection of food items, all things that I know they like, yet more often than not the lunch box comes home with half of it not eaten. I guess this is partly because the children are so keen to go outside to play football!

Why is it that the lunchtime supervisors can't see how important it is to encourage the children to finish their lunches before allowing them outside?

Joe's suggested options on how to address this common problem:

A There are a number of issues here and much depends on information you have not given us, but:

-Start by talking with your children's form teachers, express your concern and ask them to check both with the children and the supervisory staff what is causing the problem and come back to you so that, together, you can find a solution.

-If this fails to deliver results then you will need to speak directly to the headteacher as the policy that guides the administration of the lunchtime, and the management and any training of supervisors, is in his/her hands.

- However I am concerned that you say 'there is no alternative' for your children'. All schools are obliged under the new regulations to supply a paid meals service 'on request' from parents as well as 'free school meals'. If your school is not offering a good quality food service available to all the children in the school, you may well be tempted to ask what else in the school is not of a sufficiently high standard.

- Remember that with the 'delegation of school meal budgets' open to all schools , it is no longer an option for a headteacher to say that this area is out of their control - the curriculum, the food service and the pastoral care of the school is the responsibility of the head and the governors and the messages from each should be consistent and positive.

· A good way of ensuring this of course is for the school to have established a school food and nutrition policy.
Do let us know if you have resolved this or a similar issue in your school and how you did it!
To Submit a question or suggest an alternative solution: Click Here!
Q My question for Joe is: (Submitted By: Roger Denton)

Dear Joe,

What would you advise as an effective menu pattern for primary school meals that meets not only the nutritional and finncial requirements but has also appeal to our customers ?

A Joe's Answer:

The answer to this question is a book- or several books , but there are several key issues that need to be addressed.

National Nutritional Standards - these have been criticised as being too light on prescription but they are the first to exist since 1980 and they do require a minimum level of balance and variety in the menu offer to all children throughout the lunchtime.

Assessment of children's tastes - far too often for far too long some caterers have maintained that they know what children want and will eat, while doing little to engage with their customers in any real dialogue.It is easier/lazier to defend the status quo than be adventurous and try new ways.The best/most successful however have always recognised the importance of listening to and working with youngsters in supplying such a vital service.

The power of partnership - caterers are just one of the player responsible for delivering a quality food service in schools; the school management team have control over many areas including length of lunch hour, administration of queues, supervision, decor and furnishings, the quality or otherwise of the supporting curriculum, additional services such as snacking/breakfast/vending.So it is essential that a partnership of interested parties is established to work to improve not just menus but also the marketing, the quality of the eating environment, customer care, links with parents and so on.

Transported meals - a whole new approach is needed to raise the quality and attraction of this type of service which however well prepared in the 'mother' kitchen, struggles to to be tasty or tempting to the child when it eventually served. As a lot of transported meals are 'free school meals' it is even more critical that the quality of the meal leads to a high take-up of the benefit entitlement.

I would recommend that all caterers/headteachers/pupils set up a food policy group to address these issues( a SNAG...school nutrition action group) and look not just at the lunchtime provision but take a 'whole day, whole school' approach.
Do let us know if you have resolved this or a similar issue in your school and how you did it!
To Submit a question or suggest an alternative solution: Click Here!

Q My question for Joe is: (Submitted By: Mary Hughes)

Dear Joe,

Do you have any information on numbers of water points etc per school, pupil ratio to points, etc, to ensure adequate hydration rates for pupils in response to the recommendations that drinking water should be available to all children every day free of charge?

A Sadly Mary as I am sure you know , the only regulation is that every school should have a supply of drinking water, and that is not being met everywhere.The 'recommendation' from the recent guidance document to caterers and schools from government : ' expects thta drinking watershould be available to all pupils every day, free of charge.' This, it is estimated was/is being ignored by some 40% of our schools although since the brilliant campaigns recently launched by ERIC(Enuresis Resource and Information Centre) and followed by the excellent 'Be Cool in School' project in Merseyside, this number has certainly reduced. For further information and helpful contacts, please check the latest newsletter on this site.

Also see the BBC News Education site to catch up on the most recent publicity (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/education/newsid_2048000/2048898.stm)
Do let us know if you have resolved this or a similar issue in your school and how you did it!
To Submit a question or suggest an alternative solution: Click Here!

Q My question for Joe is: (Submitted By: Linda Lee)

Hello Joe,

Please do you have any information on what children eat for breakfast?
On behalf of Somerset Education I have been asked to source information on the consumption of breakfast by schoolchildren (5-16 years).
In particular I need to find out:
- Do children eat breakfast, and if so, what?
- What is likely to make them skip breakfast?
- Of those children who don't eat breakfast how many are likely to be entitled to Free School Meals?
- If it is found that many children from low income families have not had breakfast, what are the implications for the provision of catering services in schools?

A A lot of research has been done on the subject of breakfast eating both locally and nationally. I would certainly recommend you check with LACA ( Local Authority Catering Association) and DfES sources. It is clear that results will vary depending on the patterns of eating in the community examined - the last research that I did showed the following:
Consumption generally declines with increasing age.
There is a link between social class and consumption.
Girls are worse than boys at missing breakfast as they move into adolescence.
Some studies 14/15yr olds have shown that up to 35% of boys and 50% of girls leave home without eating.
Their is no doubt that schools in partnership with their catering service have a responsibility to work with their pupils to research the situation as it applies to them.Is their a need for a breakfast service or a breakfast 'club' in the school? Will children and their parents support a service so it is commercially viable, should the school subsidise or find external sponsorship for a club targeted at specific youngsters with identifiable needs ? If they do the latter they should be sure that they can sustain it for the long term so it doesn't fizzle out just as children and their parents have come to rely on it.
Above all breakfast provision should be seen within the context of a 'whole-day' food service and part of the schools policy on food /nutrition and exercise.
Do let us know if you have resolved this or a similar issue in your school and how you did it!
To Submit a question or suggest an alternative solution: Click Here!

Q My question for Joe is: (Submitted By: Alison Graham)

Having just analysed a questionnaire from all our KS3 youngsters we were horrified to find just how bad their diet is. Does anyone have any good practice as to how we can convince them to try healthier foods without them thinking they are wasting their dinner money?

A This requires a mixture of education and marketing and offers a great example of the importance of taking a 'whole school approach' to food and nutrition.Try asking yourselves ( even better, ask your children as well ) the following questions:
What are the key influences on a childs food behaviour?
Of these which can the school have some impact on?
How in tune are the messages from the school curriculum and the school food service - lunch/snacking/vending/breakfast.....don't forget any reward systems in operation?
How well does the school and caterer work together to engage with the pupils in a conversation about the food service and how best to encourage meeting the childrens nutritional needs while operating a commercially sound business?
Areas to consider specifically might be:
Working with parents to influence diet at home........be very sensitive to how you do this.
Setting up tastings at break or lunchtime of new dishes or different food items.
Look at reward systems that encourage balanced choice.
Link some of the work in food technology to the design of new dishes for the canteen menu.
Review the quality of the eating environment, queueing, decor, supervision, the example set by staff who eat with the children.
General principles:
Establish a SNAG (school nutrition action group) to audit your present practice and plan a way forward with the ownership and involvement of your chidren........a copy of 'The Chips Are Down' would be a useful guide, but I would say that wouldn't I?
Do let us know if you have resolved this or a similar issue in your school and how you did it!
To Submit a question or suggest an alternative solution: Click Here!
Q My question for Joe is: (Submitted By: Vivien Prendiville)


What budget would you recommend for ingredient/ food costs to provide a quality meal in primary and secondary schools? I know you have stated in various media that you believe budgets need to be doubled. If food costs are at present 40p per pupil, then are you recommending a budget of 80p per pupil. Would it be the same for primary and secondary? Do you have any evidence/ examples of schools providing a quality school meal within a more generous budget? Many thanks for any advice you can provide.

A The approximate figures for ingredients costs usually quoted are 38p/primary and 44p/secondary. I have argued for a doubling of those figures on the basis that the outcome would be a dramatic increase in the quality of the food service that could be provided at a relatively low % increase to the meal charge. This is of key importance to the quality /uptake of the free school meal but would of course mean a similar upgrade for those wanting a paid meal. The pressure on caterers to provide a varied and appropriate service within the present funding has caused the problems we now have with ingredients sourced by price not quality being the dominant driving force. The best place to look for examples of higher than average spend is in schools who have taken their own budget, and in the independent sector as they have had budgetary independence for ever - and a number of both the above have an understanding of the benefits not just to the health of children but also to the social/educational life of a school. It is a much tougher call for catering contractors to hike up investment without the political support of LEA's and of course the direction of government.
Watch this space. Cheers Joe

Q My question for Joe is: (Submitted By: Sarah Morgan)
I am a Healthy Schools Co-coordinator in Wales. I have set up an Educational Sub- Group for the Food and Well-Being Strategy and I have an excellent relationship with the LEA caterers, who are perfectly accommodating.

I do have a problem with a local Head Teacher, who wants to ban chips in the school. As a Sub-Group, we know that this is not the answer to ensuring that pupils eat well and that 'choice' is an important factor in school restaurants.

Is there any written evidence / case studies that have been done to show that no chip days are not effective?

A Dear Sarah,
Indeed there are a number of such instances and not just relating to chips. However my own experience of this came from the early days of SNAGs when Sandra Passmore (community Dietitian) and I tried just such an approach. It was a disaster, the children found other outlets, the caterers lost numbers, the pupils were upset that they had not been involved in a discussion over the issue - so no rationale - and an opportunity to engage students in an intelligent debate about balance and variety, consistent messages from curriculum reflected in service etc was lost.

Education is not about telling adolescents what to eat, it is about influencing choice and working with them to improve their food behaviour through understanding and enjoyment of food and nutrition. Set up a SNAG and give the process of consultation/ownership a chance. I seem to remember if you tell a young person they must do something, it generally has the opposite effect.

Cheers Joe
Do let us know if you have resolved this or a similar issue in your school and how you did it!
To Submit a question or suggest an alternative solution: Click Here!
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